Edit: Just asked because of curiosity. I’m not actually looking for such vehicles.
Edit 2: So for context, my parents new Toyota has this feature that allows the GPS location of the car to be sent to toyota, then you can see the location via an app on android/ios (it’s supposed to be an anti-theft feature). The data is sent via an antenna that connects to cell towers, which then connects to the internet, and to the toyota servers. “Diagnostic” and “maintenance” information is also sent via those same antennas.
The dealer said it could be turned off, but who knows if they are really off. There’s not a hard switch on the car.
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Even your ‘tire pressure sensors’ can be used to track individuals around a city. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/04/tracking_vehicl.html
In 2008 they knew about this? Holy crap I need to do some research.
Doesn’t really look good:
“All new cars today are privacy nightmares on wheels that collect huge amounts of personal information.”
Hyundai’s privacy policy says, for example, that they can share data with law enforcement and governments based on “formal or informal” requests.
Wow. Informal requests means that someone just has to pretend they’re a LEO and Hyundai might share the information.
Ouff.
A few cars use Android Automotive OS. I wonder if it’s possible to run a privacy focused custom OS on them.
Your best bet for a “hardware switch” is reading the service manual to find which fuse controls the comms module, and pull it. Depending on the vehicle it may have other side effects.
Maybe we will get to the point where people are selling modchips for cars, like the OG PlayStation.
I read somewhere one time that you can ask the dealership to rip out the modem thing for you so there’s no internet. I wonder if there’s a guide or manual to do it ourselves though. I recall it’s towards the trunk area and sometimes near the top of the cabin.
While this is probably the only real solution for complete peace of mind, you may be able to find and disconnect the fuse to the telemetry system as an easier (and cheaper) fix - check out the fuse box diagram in your owner’s manual!
The dealership won’t do it but most independent workshops probably will. You might get into trouble with your warranty though if there’s ever an electric issue, the disconnected unit will show up as a fault code during diagnostics.
You can buy a 2023 Dacia Logan and it will still have none of the gizmos and knicknacks that track you and your behaviour.
Whether you call that a “modern” car is another debate, but for sure it’s a recent one.
I doubt what the dealer says is true. Intentionally or not. I don’t really believe cars do us much net good anyway. Public transport and biking/walking for the win.
Maybe have them pull out the router at the dealership. I think they have to listen to your request. They may argue with you about it and be like “yeah but you won’t have internet and all this cool stuff” but yeah whatever people have phones nowadays anyway.
is it possible for the car to connect to internet without u letting it? maybe just never connect?
It has to connect to the internet somehow. Otherwise how could I see where the car is are using the Toyota app? I could see the tire pressure in each tire and the amount of fuel.
There is also this button at the top (the ceiling?) of the car that basically acts like an emergency button. Pressing it connects your car to someone at toyota that calls for roadside assistance. But idk why then even have that since most people have phones anyways.
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i would highly recommend never connecting it to internet. a small inconvinience for much better privacy. zero trust rule: only enable an abusable feature like internet on things which absolutely need it
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the emergency button probably connects to any cell tower, regardless of your provider (like a phone with no sim), or maybe even satellite? i highly doubt that toyota would use this for anything besides emergencies (although one can never be sure)
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some people still dont have phones, and that is not a bad thing.
- You don’t need touch anything in the car for it to connect to the internet. It’s a brand new car, and the car salesperson just put the VIN in the app and you can see the location of the car. Which means, it was already connected right out of the factory.
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I am really curious now. I would never buy one but share, so also spread my fingerprint which isnt that bad.
But now I wonder, are there any electric cars that dont suck?
All of the ICE have this too. It’s not just EVs.
Ice? Like in intercity express trains?
Internal Combustion Engine
Okay but I mean those cars are pretty much useless in the near future, at least I hope so.
Define “privacy” and define “modern car”.
In the end, it doesn’t matter what car you’re driving if you bring your Android/iPhone…
There are “privacy oriented” smartphone replacements. You could flash graphene os to a Pixel.
There is not really such thing for cars.
And, again, what is your definition of “privacy” and what is your definition of “modern car”?
Privacy as in either no telemetry being sent back to the dealer, or the option to turn it off (actually being turned off, not just being set to “off”) The digital aspects of privacy, not car window tint.
Modern car as in a car that’s built within the last 5 years.
Also, I’m not actually looking for a car, just curious.
Well the base model of the perodua axia sold in Malaysia probably fits your requirements as it does not come with central locking or even a radio.
What a random recommendation
First, you need to differentiate between “dealer” and “manufacturer”, except in minority cases like Tesla, they are two separate entities.
Dealers, as a rule, don’t have the capacity to accept telemetry data from vehicles. Source: I’m a former dealer sysadmin.
What they can and do do, is download telemetry data stored onboard when you bring the vehicle in for service. This is done through the OBD-II port which has been in every car since 1996.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/obd-ii-port-used/
If you’re concerned (or curious) about what data is passed over OBD-II, you can buy your own scanner, $20 to $100 on Amazon depending on features.
Now, MANUFACTURERS, that’s a different deal:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/autos/sc-auto-tips-0102-driving-data-collection-20181225-story.html
You are such an annoying person, you know that?
For you asking OP twice to specify “privacy” and “modern” (which was very clear what they means, to me at least) your answer is somewhat disappointing now 😁
Telling them that a) dealers don’t have access to telemetry data beyond what’s passed on the vehicle data port and b) providing a news article showing that 3/4 new cars communicate data back to the manufacturers unless you specifically opt out isn’t helpful?
Guessing you didn’t actually read the article?
Of course. Just instal FOSS operating system for it.
