In stopped clock is right twice a day news, Florida is moving to ban Flocks from state highways.
Aside from Florida, there is a bunch of momentum all around the US now. Some cities just moved to another ALPR vendor like Axon. That sucks ofc. But many have eliminated ALPR entirely too, after citizens spoke out! Some cities had a constant stream of ppl speaking at city council meetings about it, months on end, dozens of ppl in every meeting.
It’s harder to deal with Flocks on private property. Like Home Depot and Lowes. A city gov terminating its own contract, doesn’t stop Home Depot. I dream of a coordinated, nation-wide boycott of co’s that put private Flocks in their lots. And letting them know exactly why.
Let’s keep the anti ALPR momentum going. It’s starting to see results. And don’t fall into the illogic of thinking it’s not perfect, therefore it’s useless.
These stores host flock and other cameras on the premise of: it deters crime, decreases theft, shoplifting, and other criminal acts and is a net benefit on that basis. Privacy makes them no money. As far as they’re concerned they’d put cameras in your cars and homes to make sure you’re not stealing from them.
You have to break that calculation so it costs far more than it can save to host these. Cutting down cameras doesn’t incur anywhere near large enough a cost to change that calculus and there’s a good chance Flock pays for the new cameras not the store. A boycott would be hard to get them to acknowledge as being connected to their hosting these kinds of surveillance systems and the people who put them in and keep them there would try to strongly deny a correlation so it would need to be a militantly disciplined, well organized campaign.
The problem is you need the media to help you organize such a widespread and well-telegraphed in message boycott campaign and the media is fully on the side of Flock and regarding any vandalism of Flock and similar ALPRs as a case where they desperately want the person caught and will air their photos to attempt to help catch such a criminal monster. So the media would never broadcast such a campaign, would never even acknowledge it. Local news makes so much money off police stories, local crime fear-mongering, etc.
Of course there are other options to change the cost calculus but they’re not preferable due to legality issues.
The Home Depot and Lowe’s cameras aren’t going away, but I’ve noticed those ones face directly into their parking lots and not at streets. So if you have options, hit up a True Value or any of the other hardware stores instead. Their parking lots don’t have these cameras and you’re supporting a co-op instead.
Same, I’ve noticed they point into their lots.
Depending on where ppl live, there’s also Ace Hardware. Sometimes too, small local HW stores. I just discovered a locally run one near me. Never knew about them. But found it when looking for alternatives to Lowes and HD.
Local hardware stores are the tits.
Monday’s order did not affect cameras on private property or on local rights-of-way — where 98% of the surveillance cameras are located
FLORIDA BANS FLOCK CAMERAS ~practically nowhere~
No, that is untrue. I hate this kind of defeatism.
It is true by a simple count of cameras, most in Florida remain. But that is not the right metric, unless you planned a tour of every Lowes and Home Depot and w/e in the state. Getting them off the state highway system is a big deal. And more and more cities are starting to terminate contracts too.
Just because the whole problem isn’t solved in a single stroke, does NOT mean we should minimize how important each step is.
Yes. But I don’t have to go to Home Depot or Lowes or w/e. Contrast, it is effectively impossible to avoid the Flock network on public roads. They capture cars and bikes and pedestrians.
So even if most of the cameras remain by simple count, it is still a very big deal to get them off public highways. And the more cities who join, the better that will be too.
Are they allowed to point at roads of they’re in private parking lot? That is unclear to me
Not sure, TBH. The ones in private lots near me seem pointed to surveil the lots, if I go by the de-flock map. But I would be surprised if a few didn’t pick up short segments of the public roads sometimes.
So my guess is it happens, but it’s still a big improvement on having that PLUS the public road network too.
Those little mobile sentry stations that record 360° seem intentionally placed in positions next to high volume public infrastructure. Honestly, there should be a law requiring them to shield lights and cameras from uncontracted property.
We had one locally installed in a lot between two apartments. Dude, that would have pissed me off having cameras and strobing lights straight outside my bedroom window.
Florida is leading the way?! Huh. This tells you how bipartisan this issue is. It’s just so blatantly unconstitutional.
It really is. While back, I saw a poll, can’t remember the city. But just over 90% of the local citizens there wanted Flocks gone. Rest were either unsure, or in favor of Flocks.
90%! You can’t get 90% of Americans to agree that 2+2=4.
I’m no fan of Republicans, but tbf a decade+ ago the vast majority of politicians opposing ALPRs were Republicans (still, their implementation was largely biparisan - it’s just that Dems had very little on opposition side compared to Repubs).
This comment is dubious at best. “Vast majority” X Doubt. Republicans definitely don’t get credit here due to otherwise being aligned with the police state. Also ALPRs are not what Flock and Axon are doing. It’s mass surveillance.
Home depot and Lowe’s are often the only significant home repair place around. In order to boycott one, the other will have to take the first step and remove the cameras. (Which would probably be Lowe’s since I heard Home Depot donated to Trump and the former CEO is a big supporter)
Still, a boycott won’t work well as long as we have a lesser of two evils situation.
In my area, we have an Ace Hardware. If you find that or True Value in your area, hit one of those up instead. They don’t have as much, but should offer enough for most needs. The Ace near me is small and has none of these cameras.
Oh, I love Ace. The employees know me by name. That’s probably a red flag, but I don’t care. Yeah, it’s pricey though.
We also have Outdoor Supply Hardware here. The nut and bolt section is handyman heaven.
Still, as great as they are, sometimes I need construction stuff from the other stores.
That’s probably a red flag
TBH, I don’t see it as a red flag. Well, unless the employee is making notes in a corporate system about you or w/e, that’s different.
But if you buy stuff, and employee recognizes you with their human brain and human eyeballs, I don’t have a problem with that. It’s the data aggregation which is harmful IMO. The automated systems extracting all possible info. The personal dossiers. The population scale. The inferences made about everyone, and selling to other co’s to predict and manipulate all our behavior.
I walk into local sandwich shop, Joe behind the counter greets me by name b/c I’m in every week? I’m cool with that.
Do you have Harbor Freight? I forgot about that one. It’s hard to avoid the big places and they know this well.
Yup, have those around too. My motto with Harbor Freight is “buy cheap first. If it works, great. If it breaks, buy better.” Serves me well, but not worth testing & investing in battery lock-in tool lines.
Lots of neat gadgets and supplies though. How much tech do you need in screwdrivers, clamps, and consumables.
That is a great motto for that place lmao. I hate the tool lock-in hell.
They have facial recognition surveillance inside so what’s the difference
I’m aware of the lawsuit suggesting home Depot is using self checkout cameras to scan and log biometric data. I am waiting for that to play out in court however.
If true, then yes, throw the book at them. It is likely video is sent to remote processing hardware that does violate the law.
However, I’ll point out that is an assumption as the plaintiff nearly saw a rectangle around his head which doesn’t necessarily indicate anything beyond object identification; basic technology built into cameras for decades now.
In this case Home Depot themselves somewhat implied legitimacy to the complaint in their defense of it. Smooth move guys.
I don’t know of any lawsuit but just assume any store with the resources to do such a thing is doing it.
Also there’s no reason they shouldn’t be allowed to do that. It’s their store. As long as they aren’t giving free access to LEO or feds or whomever they can do it all they want.
There are notification requirements if they use the technology in store. The tech it’s self is allowed.
state highways
Still in roads, streets, and “private properties.”
Did I wake up in a alternate universe?
No. Just that highways are dangerous locations to abduct people. Roads, streets, and other properties still have Flock.
