• @nomadjoanne@lemmy.world
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    212 years ago

    No, it is not. It is brutal in many ways. But that it is not. Neither is socialomswor communism.

    Pyramid schemes are zero-sum. I steal and gain, you lose. Capitalism and even communism are not zero-sum games. They are net-positive. They involve people making goods and services for others.

    • @hark@lemmy.world
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      82 years ago

      Pyramid schemes don’t have to be zero-sum. All you need are assholes at the top trying to suck up as many resources as they can. Imagine the shape that makes.

      • @nomadjoanne@lemmy.world
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        62 years ago

        A hexagon!

        They’re zero sum because money is being exchanged, but the person losing money isn’t getting anything in return for the exchange. Someone is just stealing from someone else (one person loses, anotber gains). No matter how many people are added to the scheme the mechanics remain the same.

        An economy, be it a capitalist or communist one, involves the exchange of money but in exchange for goods and services. Both parties of the transaction gain from it.

        Now, it could be argued that the wrong people gain the most from capitalism. That’s another argument. But the system isn’t zero sum, the way a ponzi scheme or a pyramid scheme is.

    • @driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
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      2 years ago

      I think you can say is a pyramid scheme in the way you can’t really make money if you aren’t making money for someone upper on the ladder, even if are an independent business owner, you still have loans to pay or equipment that is sold by a corporation.

        • Everywhere around you, you can see work that need to be done, from streets that need to be fixed or land that could be cultivated, and all those work keep undone, because nobody up the ladder would get money from it.

      • @w2qw@aussie.zone
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        12 years ago

        Generally the idea is that both parties need to benefit from any transaction if it is voluntary.

        • migo
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          82 years ago

          When you have to eat and the means to feed ourselves is held by few, no transaction is voluntary.

        • @GoodEye8@lemm.ee
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          02 years ago

          Generally speaking, slavery is also benefitial to both parties, you’re either a slave out you get killed. While technically voluntary (because a slave can still choose stand up to the oppressor, even if it’s guaranteed to fail) we don’t consider slavery voluntary. We can say that in this day and age our work is voluntary, but it’s debatable.

          You can look to this year how “voluntary” it is when the Hollywood execs literally said they will wait for the protesters to starve so they’d get back to work. When there’s such a severe power dynamic it becomes almost no different to slavery, because you, individually, can be effectively forced back to work. The only reason Hollywood protests have any chance to have impact is because they collectively oppose the oppression. The power dynamic is being balanced (or dipped in the favor of labor) by sheer number of protestors / workers.

    • @Ysysel@lemmy.world
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      32 years ago

      If we take into consideration the destruction of the ecosystems necessary to sustain human life, capitalism is a net-negative.

      • @postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
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        72 years ago

        They draw the box around the part that is a net positive.

        The destruction of the Commons is not accounted for.

        The impacts outside their box are not accounted for.

        • @w2qw@aussie.zone
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          02 years ago

          This is true but not a necessity of capitalism. Pigouvian can put the destruction of the commons back in that box.

        • @orrk@lemmy.world
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          02 years ago

          the tragedy of the commons was a bit of British aristocrat propaganda to take the land peasants worked…

      • @nomadjoanne@lemmy.world
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        02 years ago

        Incredible that you can say that seriously. Human development and civilization causes ecosystem destruction. The particular economic system may affect the specifics of how this happens not whether or not it does.

        • @Ysysel@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Capitalism means always looking for more profits. Endless efforts of private owners to expand and increase their profits leads to the perpetual circle of suproduction and overconsumption which destroy ressources and ecosystems.

          This particular system is the main reason it’s happening.

          • @havokdj@lemmy.world
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            32 years ago

            Do you honestly think a communist or socialist society which is wealthy would be any healthier for the environment than a capitalist one that is also wealthy?

            We have been destroying the planet long before economy was a concept.

            • @Ysysel@lemmy.world
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              32 years ago

              A socialist or communist society could be healthier. Not saying it automatically would be. The only people theorizing a sustainable economy are on the (far) left though.

              And the last 50 years proved that sustainability is impossible in a capitalist system. It hinders profits, and the basis of capitalism is: always more profits.

                • @Ysysel@lemmy.world
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                  12 years ago

                  Well… no. It never was. Even the USA is highly intrusive and protectionnist. Also, state capitalism ? In you other responses you talk about China like it’s not a capitalist country. China is the main example of state capitalism.

                  I think you are confusing capitalism with something else.

                  The wikipedia article is a good start if you are interested.

            • @w2qw@aussie.zone
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              22 years ago

              A socialist society would be better for the environment because all the people would starve /s