Roundabouts would like a word. Properly designed ones don’t need to dramatically lower speeds and are more efficient. And can easily be made pedestrian friendly. It doesn’t have to be either or.
Can they though? What does a pedestrian friendly roundabout look like? The ones I’ve seen seem outright hostile.
I tried to find data but it doesn’t seem well studied. Since standard road design is so horrifically unsafe, unless it is substantially better it does not seem worth redesigning the intersection. I’d rather see that money go into something that has a proven benefit.
Further reading: https://streets.mn/2017/11/17/are-roundabouts-safer-for-pedestrians/
Crosswalk bridges. Something used in not just roundabouts.
Crosswalk bridges are pretty hostile to pedestrians. They need to be at least 4 meters/12 ft high, to accommodate standard lorries. Nobody likes climbing high stairs on every crossing. Even worse for wheelchair users.
If only we’d invented some sort of sloped surface. Maybe call it a “ramp”?
Scaling a 4 meter high ramps on every intersection sounds like a fucking nightmare
Yes, because no one anywhere has ever built a ramp that made sense.
You’re intentionally being obtuse.
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It does lower speeds, you can’t just fly through a roundabout even if you’re going straight through. You can easily blast through a regular intersection at 100mph if you want.
They have higher throughput though, so it’s “faster” in that sense. Lower peak speeds, higher average speeds (as you’re not stopped for a long time).
you can’t just fly through a roundabout
That’s the point of a roundabout. It lowers speed at the crossing while also increasing throughput compared to a regular crossing.
So you can indeed lower speed at a crossing area while not lowering the speed of traffic overall, just by eliminating the waiting times.
Yeah, but then us Americans have to learn how to drive in circles and that’s really hard apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu0VJ7Vo5pg
But to be fair… putting down a single sign at the start of every red divider even if it’s still under construction would have prevented most of that insanity.
Where do you live? Roundabouts are pretty common in much of the US anymore.
Roundabouts exist in the oldest parts of the US. Go east and you’ll find them everywhere.
don’t need to dramatically lower speeds
They lower speeds, just not to a stop which is good for traffic throughput and emissions.
Plus pedestrians don’t have to look both ways to cross, since traffic is only coming from one direction
That’s only if you are crossing through a roundabout, which I’ve never seen for pedestrians. Pedestrians have to walk around the roundabout as well, crossing the two way streets that leads up to it and still having to look both ways for cars leaving and entering the roundabout. This is usually helped by a median but a regular intersection can have a median as well to accomplish the same thing. These medians will also usually create a slip though like the author says in the video, which allows cars to take right turns at speed, if the roundabout is empty, without checking for the crosswalk they’re turning into.
Alex, what is a “pedestrian bridge” for $500?
@fishos ah yes, the least pedestrian-friendly infrastructure. Let’s build more of those to make roundabouts pedestrian-friendly somehow (?)
Roundabouts require drivers to concentrate on multiple incoming streams of traffic to find a gap. Their attention is already divided, and they are far more likely to miss a pedestrian than at a regular intersection.
In roundabouts you only need to look in one direction of incoming cars. In a regular 4-way intersection you have to look in three directions. Your comment makes no sense to me.
You mainly need to be looking right (flipped for anyone who doesn’t drive on the left) pretty much all the roundabouts here that regularly have pedestrians will have triggered traffic lights or the pedestrian crossing at least a car length before the roundabout starts so if you’re entering a roundabout you’re almost always in front of where people will cross if they’re not just being dumb. Once you’re used to roundabouts they’re pretty formulaic and the biggest problem (for me anyway) on an unfamiliar roundabout is knowing which lane to be in, not the traffic already on the roundabout.
I live I nthe Netherlands. The Dutch road system has a very good reputation. And I agree, I love our infrastructure. I hope it is an example for the rest of the world.
When I started driving myself, I loved to drive fast on the highway. I arrived supper annoyed at my destination as I had to evade near exidents ndue to people texting or just not paying attention. When I started to drive slow, making sure I wasn’t blocking others, I arrived calm and only 10min later then when I was speeding all the time. Also, most traffic jams happen because eof speeding people. They break more, which causes jams. In a traffic jam, try to maintain a constant speed, while barely breaking, keeping a lot of room in front of you. This helps solve traffic jams, of everyone would do this.
Same experience as you, when you drive slow and calm you find you arrive more calm and relaxed. Less traffic as well and most times there is the added benefit of not being stuck at the next red as it turns green before you get there.
I mean it’s pretty obvious from the headline, but the goal is to compromise if you’re to have any meaningful volume of transportation.
We’ve already compromised too much by allowing cars in cities at all. If you are going to drive around innocent bystanders it needs to be done in a safe manner. Saving a minute on your commute is insignificant compared to a life.
I do like the Las Vegas approach where pedestrians have a completely separate infrastructure. Its very easy to get around and i find vehicle traffic is fairly efficient for that sized city.
I mean most cities have this, don’t they? Sidewalks vs car lanes. Or what do you mean by this?
There are sections of permanent elevated walkways and a network of bridges completely separating pedestrian and vehicle traffic. Just walk over the streets, no waiting for lights. Its pretty cool.
Oh wow interesting. If I ever go I’ll have to take a look. Sounds expensive but if it works it works I guess.
What’s your definition notion of speed? This one major street in my town was restricted from two lanes down to one through lane with turn lanes. They also reduced the speed limit and adjusted traffic lights.
Result: much safer AND you reliably get through in less time. No stop and go, no weaving or merging, just slow and steady winning the race
Just wait until the bike crowd learns that this holds true in a bikers and pedestrian only situation.
It is true that speed is more dangerous but how much more? Hopefully once we’ve dismantled most car infrastructure we can have separate travel lanes for bikes and pedestrians but right now I’m comfortable sharing. Bicycle collisions just aren’t very dangerous compared to car collisions.
Tell that to the relatives of that grandma who was run over and killed by a speeding biker in a pedestrian zone two weeks ago. He drove off when he saw her down and is still at large.
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I agree with you that for deaths, this is nowhere close. But the relationship is there. You complain about the cars, but most bikers I see behave as badly to pedestrians as bikers claim about cars. They just don’t recognize that their behavior is as bad.
