to people saying YouTube is a moneysink for google:
yes it is, if you just look at direct expenses of running it. but you’re overlooking the fact that it has enabled google to amass so much data(we’re taking about 500 hours worth of videos being uploaded per minute) that they can train anything with it.
it’s a service that’s too big to fail. even whole governments, courts, and other institutions depend on it. so, I refuse to believe that YouTube will be non-existant because a sliver of users refuse to be profiled by invasive advertisements.
If YouTube premium was $4.99 a month it’d be worth a consideration. But then again adblocking is free and privacy respecting
I’m not gonna pay for a service that harvest and sell my data
So you pay for 0 services then?
Arr!
Chad
Well, we all know it’s the free services that don’t harvest data.
Yeah, but at least you’re not subsidising it. Besides, surely everyone has a copy of it by now. What are they gonna do, advertise another product for me to find a FOSS alternative for?
I agree
If you really want to support the creators without getting your data exploited, this ist the place to go: https://nebula.tv/
Yep. Nebula rules, I wish more creators were in there.
Hopefully it’s a positive feedback loop situation here. More nebula subscribers-> more revenue -> more creators -> more subscribers. It’s good that it’s owned and ran by some creators so hopefully they stay true to their cause here.
I actually miss some more letsplayer or tabletop content on nebula. Because i just compared my yt subscriptions with nebulars creators and i do realy miss the stuff i can just watch when my brain is dead.
Exactly. Premium is basically twice what I’m willing to pay. I’ve considered going premium multiple times, and have multiple times suffered sticker shock and backed away.
Family plan split 6 ways among friends and family roughly comes out to $5/month
Pfft you think JCDenton has 6 friends and family to split the cost with?
I know folks post on reddit about finding Google Fi family plan groups, maybe there’s something similar for google fam groups?
I actually think YouTube premium is worth its price. Spotify is the same price, but you get less.
I want ad free YouTube but don’t want YouTube music. I don’t want to pay for extra shit that I won’t be using.
I use Spotify way more than I use YouTube. Spotify does one thing and it does it extremely well.
If Spotify added unlimited free Uber eats delivery tomorrow and bumped up the price to $20 a month, then sure, it’d be a good deal but I wouldn’t want any of that.
You see: the difference between us is that you see YouTube Music as an extra. I see the other features as an extra since I only really use YouTube music.
Sure, it sucked about 2 years ago but it has become really good in the last few months.
If you don’t use Spotify and use YouTube a lot, YouTube premium is worth it.
So why don’t they split YouTube and YouTube music subs? It can save people like us money
They had that in parts of Europe for a year now as a trial. But they are discontinuing it this month, making us choose between ads, and lots of YouTube premium crap we don’t want.
I’m not sure about individual plans, but YouTube Premium Family went up to $23 per month. I’ve been a member since day 1 and they eliminated all grandfathering for me. Spotify is $15 for Duo or $17 for family.
In Germany it’s 17,99€ for family
They charge $17 for Music only without including YouTube Premium in the US.
Well that sucks
Qobuz is $11 and that’s for high res music…
They’re all $11 for an individual plan, I was talking about family plans.
That’s not in America
I was in the same boat. Said fuck it, switched to Spotify Duo, now I just use YouTube less.
The only thing that would convince me to switch back would be a sub $5/mo plan to just remove ads. I’ll keep Spotify because YouTube Music is still not worth it.
The big thing that convinced me Spotify is better as a music service is that it was able to successfully recommend me a band I like that has only 71 listeners, and is similar to another band I like with 140 listeners. YouTube struggles with even understanding what artists are similar to those two and just plays other stuff I listen to (that’s unrelated) on artist radio.
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I am much, much more likely to be willing to pay for Ublock than I am YouTube.
Yeah I could care less about people saying they’d watch ads of they were less intrusive. I’m not, I don’t give a fuck about YouTube’s sustainability who happened to still have major growth while I ran an AdBlock this entire time.
Maybe I’d consider paying if YouTube was the actual product I was paying for. Instead I get privacy invasive spying and my data being harvested, while am paying to do so. The product I’d want to pay for would have zero privacy invasive stuff involved. Which that isn’t going to exist, so I’m never going to pay.
I couldn’t* care less.
If you say “I could care less,” then it means you’re still caring.
Premium is priced so uncompetitively my family can subscribe to all of Netflix, AppleTV+ and Amazon Prime Video for less than a YouTube subscription.
I have YouTube premium family and it costs about $20/month for 5 family members. Are you sure those streaming services cost less than that?
YouTube Premium Family - $39.99 NZD
Netflix - $18.49 NZD AppleTV+ - $8.49 NZD Amazon Prime Video - $8 NZD Total: $34.98 NZD
That Netflix price is for one account, two screens. Premium family is for 5 separate accounts, no matter where geographically and no password sharing. Your comparison is not fair.
That Netflix price is for one account, two screens. Premium family is for 5 separate accounts, no matter where geographically and no password sharing. Your comparison is not fair.
I have a family of 4. We don’t need more than two screens simultaneously.
But let’s pay the extra $6.50 and push it to the top spec Netflix plan.
All three services combined, services that don’t have their content made by their users, are now $41.49. Only $1.50 more than YouTube.
Or you could swap Netflix for Disney+ and it would be $31.48.
YouTube Premium is still a compete rip off.
Maybe youtubeTV
Does anyone else remember back in the days of VCR, the networks wanted to push a technology that disallows you from fast-forwarding through ad breaks on the stuff you recorded?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Does that last sentence make this comment an advertisement?
I guess, technically yes. Does that mean I have to specify that I am in no way endorsed by or representing Pepperidge Farms and that I cannot attest the quality of their products because they are not offered in my country (or at least I haven’t seen them)? Is that The Way It’s Meant To Be Played?
Is pepperidge farms a real product? I thought it was a Simpsons reference.
Now I hope they were the ones behind the meme.
It’s a commercial bakery and “Pepperidge Farm remembers” is their slogan. Here is the old commercial that inspired the Family Guy cut-away.
I didn’t read it.
I also remember when TiVO got their asses temporarily handed them by ReplayTV, which didn’t even record the commericials!
Youtube is getting on cable tv levels of bad. On a regular ~10min video you will first deal with a few preroll ads and at least one is unskippable, then the creator will have a 2+ minute sponsor segment (I don’t mind those since they are usually well presented). There will also be multiple midroll ad spots.
Depending on video length, it’s gonna soon be literally more ad than video. They are still stealing and selling your data though, and also making the web worse for everyone with DRM shit.
Fuck. Google.
I had already migrated to Invidious since last year because I degoogled everything. Seems like now its time to look for real youtube alternatives.
It’s an end of an era. I’ve been on reddit for over a decade, and on youtube for even longer. Crazy to think I might be giving up both of those services within a few months of each other. Feels like the internet is dying. Oh well. Maybe I’ll go back to reading a shitload.
I don’t really know how people can even use YouTube without ad blockers. Sitting through minutes of advertisement is not going to make me want to buy your product if I start mentally associating your product with frustration and annoyance. If these video ads are going to be repetitive and annoying, at least make them funny.
It seems like there is nowhere on the Internet to get away from ads currently, even here, where you thought you are safe, you are now reading an ad for my newest movie (you know the one), now also available on streaming!
If you’re using UBlock Origin do the following:
Go to settings. Go to Filter Lists. Click purge all caches. Click update now.
That’s it, this message should disappear entirely.
How did manipulation to make you buy specific shit become so accepted?
Because that’s the goal of capitalism
That’s deep.
Capitalism is driven by the idea of a free market, where competition and the law of supply and demand determine prices, production, and distribution. Manipulating you to buy stuff you don’t need is the result of human greed, not capitalism. That’s such a monothink way of seeing the world.
Imagine living in a small town in the middle ages. You’re growing corn, your neighbour has a chicken farm, then there’s also a bakery, blacksmith etc. Say you now need nails. Where do you go? To the blacksmith obviously. Does he just give them to you? No, he wants something in return. Well you offer corn because that’s what you have plenty of but what if he doesn’t want corn but wants eggs instead? Well you can go to your neighbour and ask if he would like to trade some eggs for corn which you could then further trade for nails. Maybe that works, maybe it doesn’t, but that’s still a bit of an hassle. That’s why people came up with money. You can just sell your corn, get cash, buy those nails with said cash and the blacksmith can then go buy eggs with that. That’s capitalism.
Medieval communities did not engage in capitalism or any sort of internal market economy. Your assumption is that history defaults to a modern western mindset where everyone is highly individualistic and only interested in themselves. Yes you would give your neighbor eggs because you know theyll give you nails. Its called a “gift economy” by historians. Anyone who didnt help the community would be ostracized
My comment is meant as a counter argument for the claim that capitalism is “manipulating you to buy specific shit”
Money was invented in 3000BC, with first coins being minted out of precious metals around 650 to 600BC
coins being around for a long time dosent mean that most trade relied on them though
That’s commerce, not capitalism.
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That’s the foundation capitalism is built on.
Capitalism is the concentration of society around capital, hence the name capital-ism.
Here’s a definition of capital:
: a stock (see STOCK entry 1 sense 1a) of accumulated goods especially at a specified time and in contrast to income received during a specified period also : the value of these accumulated goods (2) : accumulated goods devoted to the production of other goods (3) : accumulated possessions calculated to bring in income set capital and land and labor to work —G. B. Shaw see also VENTURE CAPITAL b (1) : net worth : excess of assets over liabilities (2) : STOCK sense 2a see also CAPITAL GAIN, CAPITAL STOCK, EQUITY CAPITAL c : persons holding capital : capitalists considered as a group d : ADVANTAGE, GAIN make capital of the situation e : a store or supply of useful assets or advantages
So Capitalism doesn’t give a shit about free market, workers, ethics, consumers, nation, environment etc, only about capital. Which is why Capitalism is good for the stock holders, yet bad for everyone else. Because stock holders will do anything for their capital.
I’m not sure why you’re defining “capital”.
capitalism
/ˈkapɪtəlɪz(ə)m/
*noun
an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
“an era of free-market capitalism”*
This includes your labor: you are the private owner of your labor. Capitalism is not possible without free markets.
Mostly for myself.
The pointing i’m failing to make is you speak of Capitalism the same way others speak of Communism, of an ideal stateof mind where everyone plays nice and does what they’re supposed to. But few people do. Most play dirty and don’t respect these definitions. Like you say, the imagination is nice, however it’s reality that annoys and people come to hate and harm each other when profit is more important that coexistence.
I defend capitalism because I don’t want to live under communism. That doesn’t however mean that I’m a huge fan of the status quo either. Ofcourse I want more fair distribution of wealth, and that factories stop dumping waste into rivers etc. What I don’t want, however, is that we throw out the baby with the bathwater. I don’t advocate for that we just pull the plug on capitalism, whatever that even means. I’d much rather try and fix what’s wrong with it with better rules and regulations. Even if you think that’s impossible, it still sure is easier that rebuilding the whole thing from the ground up, and thinking you’ll succeed on the first try.
Capitalism depends on the selfishness of the individual and their ability to extract the highest value with the lowest cost. Communism depends heavily if not fully on ethics. We are definitely not an ethical people. So you are correct the former is more preferable to the latter, because it’s easier to implement. You cannot depend on ethics unless those ethics create the highest value at the lowest cost for the individual. So the key would be to make restrictions that inspire the ethical approach over cutting corners. If that is possible, then whichever system is used, they are more likely to be better than the alternative.
I don’t think there is an inherent ethical value ascribed to capitalism…it’s just a description of an economic system. It can be good or bad. It’s a broad description at that too.
It is apt to say capitalism inherently lacks ethics. And in a world where competition is the main attribute describing society, that lack is what breeds success. Which is why one could even exaggerate and say that capitalism fosters sociopathy. Individuals that grow to lose their sense of ethics are favoured and more likely to succeed in positions of power, while those restricted by their morals are quickly pushed aside. So while we say capitalism can be good or bad, it is more likely that it leans towards the bad.
That’s cool but, what does it have to do with the topic at hand?
capitalism
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
You just described the free market, not capitalism.
My definition is almost word to word the same that merriam webster gives. You can go have a look yourself.
What are you talking about? Capitalism is inherently reliant on free markets. Otherwise what you have is a planned economy. You know, the opposite of capitalism?
Capitalism is reliant on a free market. That does not make it the same nor does that mean that a free market is reliant on capitalism. The concept described above is a free market, not capitalism.
Dude, you’re talking to 14 year olds that skimmed Das Kapital one time and binged second thought on yt for the sum of their economic education.
Edit: your downvotes can’t hurt me. You know I’m right. Go back to watching Hasanabi or something.
This is not what is happening. Google offers you a tier with advertising for free. If you’d prefer to not have the ads, you can pay a small fee, get no ads and also steam every song ever. I truly don’t see the controversy.
It’s literally cheaper than a beer for a full month of this service, but people would rather spend hours of their time tinkering with settings instead. Personally, I don’t have that kind of time.
If I’m not mistaken, the “tinkering” necessary in uBlock Origin would take much less than the time you took to type out your comment. And no, it doesn’t cost less than a beer.
You have a point, but the problem goes far beyond ads vs. no ads. There is definitely a lot of controversy, and you simplify choose not to see it, but don’t try to act like everyone else is just too dumb or too poor to see things your way when neither of those are true.
If I’m not mistaken, the “tinkering” necessary in uBlock Origin would take much less than the time you took to type out your comment.
I did not say that applying today’s partiucar fix would take hours. For however long this fix works works. I said “people would rather spend hours of their time tinkering with settings instead.” Of course I use ublock myself, the web is appalling without it.
As to the price of beer, that may be an Australian thing. But if you manage to get a schooner (425ml/15 oz) at a public bar here for less than $10, you’re probably drinking something crap.
You have a point, but the problem goes far beyond ads vs. no ads. There is definitely a lot of controversy, and you simplify choose not to see it, but don’t try to act like everyone else is just too dumb or too poor to see things your way when neither of those are true.
I see what people are complaining about. They’re acting like they are being forced to visit the website. A website that sits behind one of the largest and most responsive network/web clusters on the planet. A website that is somehow referencing over an Exabyte of storage, geographically redundant and presumabely being backed up. I work in this industry, on a network with over 1,000 servers and my mind boggles at how much infrastructure that takes. I couldn’t begin to estimate what is behind that simple YouTube web front page.
Somehow, the controversy is that Google has the gall to want to recoup some of these costs. It costs a fortune for just the hardware. Then add the bandwidth. Then somehow they’re paying content creators to put popular videos on the platform. And they offer it all to you for free in return for watching some ads. Or alternatively, you pay $10 to not watch ads.
I see what you mean on that last point, but I think their profits are just insanely above what the average company’s looking at, which is probably why it seems like so much at face value.
Just the data alone that they’re complaining on almost everyone out there would more than make up for what they spend. It’s most likely why Facebook and others are also free.
As far as being forced to visit, there really aren’t many alternatives on the same level to where you can really say someone can easily do without. It’s what they wanted in the first place, so it’s not like this wasn’t something they weren’t planning for ahead of time.
It’s a tough situation, I don’t know that I wouldn’t do the same thing in youtube’s place, but I don’t think simply accept what the big Corp tells us is the best path either.
You are missing my point. Advertisment became an elaborate manipulation, targeted with questionably obtained personal information.
And for me personally the content YouTube is selling is not worth the money they are asking. I just do something else.
if only ads arent annoying and loud, i have no problems unblocking them. but damn, they’re unbearable atleast in my region.
Getting so many NSFW dating/straight up p##n ads. I shit you not they have even had CP ads I have seen. Disgusting and completely illegal.
The amount of ads that I get on mobile YouTube about meeting Ukrainian women is alarming to say the least
Ads are served based on your browsing history. If you have never watched those, then you probably should check on you 8yo child or wife’s who’s using the same acc
Not necessarily true. They are mostly advertised as “music videos” or something like this. If YouTube would know it’s porn or even CP, they wouldn’t serve the ads and block the account.
There are other factors that also play a role like location or age.
Yeah they probably serve it to certain demographics like “men between 25 and 45” or something.
I’ve never gotten ads even close to what they describe but probably because I’m a woman and fall on the elder end of gen z. So I get God awful temu and tiktok ads and then what I assume is just served to the general populace like whatever latest child mower they’re calling a consumer truck these days.
Ads are served based on your browsing history.
Not really. Ads served on Google ecosystem is geo-based, if you don’t logged in your Google account or where your YouTube connected. You cannot get rid of it, unless you wipe all Chrome and Android users.
I’m pretty sure there’s nothing in my browsing history that would suggest I’m looking for a boyfriend 🤮
Nobody else used my google acc at the time i still had it. I use FF now anyway.
Simply not having them repeat so often would already go a long long way. I always end up with the same ad 20 times in a row and it’s not even relevant to me. I don’t get how the ad industry can be worth billions of dollars and be so complete crap at what they do. Most of the stuff I watch on Youtube is essentially already an ad to begin with, all the unboxing, reviews, sponsored content, etc. is just showing me what new products are out there, and they do it in an entertaining fashion. Why are the actual ads so much worse?
Usually most of my YouTube ads are for bullshit training programs (and I do mean bullshit, like pseudosciencey shit) or gambling.
Both are just at the edge of legality (I am pretty sure some cross it).
Except since last month, because now almost all are for that Scorsese movie. I mean, I don’t mind being advertised that, but I’ve seen these ads so much that all they managed to do is make me hate it despite barely knowing anything about it.
Also, unskippable ads keep being longer. Now it’s reached two 20-second ads interrupting even short-ish videos every 5 minutes or so.
So yeah, people, that’s what YouTube looks like without an ad blocker now. Gee, I wonder why so many block them.
I get the piano fraud guy shouting about how only he can teach you mastery of the piano in three days, or something like that. It’s a scam but I can’t get rid of his obnoxious ads.
In my region (Philippines), this Shopee ads (eq. of Amazon in US) are too cutesy, annoying, and louder than my video I suppose to watch. With or without Google account, this particular ad is everywhere on YouTube. Don’t get me on gambling ads.
The temu and tiktok ads that seem to be intentionally engineered to provoke extreme negative emotions such as discomfort and irritation, that force your attention on the screen by overloading your ears with so much noise that you feel compelled to take in some amount of visual information to ease the shock, and then tacking on hashtag slogans at the end; like “oddly satisfying” after a video of a fucking butcher knife cutting through colorful play sand or “shop like a billionaire” after yelling at me about cheap Chinese goods, both of which only serving as reminders of the current state of society at large and pushing me ever so closer to a state of blind rage; are what finally pushed me to install vanced on my android.
It’s psychological torture and it should be against international human rights law.
Google kind of sucks.
What was their last big success? Google maps? Pretty much everything they do lately is some combination of shitty or prematurely killed.
Google more than just kind of sucks. Like you said they haven’t done shit in a long time outside of making the internet more hostile with shit like this and their planned chrome-based anti adblock (a LOT of browsers run on chromium which would bring the same shit, Mozilla4lyfe)
Also, the google graveyard is just pathetic at this point. They truly can’t do shit outside of anti-user bullshit
UP FIREYFOX!
Android? Google Photo? Google Pixel? Google Pay? Google Apps? Chrome? Chromebook? Google Drive? Chromecast? Android Auto?
They launched a ton of successful stuff since Maps came out in 2005
Google photo sucks
What do you prefer using?
Immich is on a par with Google Photos, imo. It’s self hosted though, so not for everyone.
Yeah I have an immich instance myself, and do plan on relying more on that as I max out my Google drive size.
The bigger issue I gave with that is remote backup still imposes a cost, and like you said you gotta know what you’re doing to safely expose that to the Internet.
That is true. I only use mine locally, so it’s not a problem. Although you can remote access via Tailscale for safety. It’s quicker and easier than trying to set up remote proxies etc, about which I know nothing. Tailscale took 5 mins.
Does it? It’s a fantastic service that works really well, whether it’s worth the price or privacy is a slightly different conversation
whether it’s worth the price
You don’t have to pay Google a penny. I bought a quite cheap (50-60$) used but working Pixel 1 XL specifically for unlimited lifetime full-quality Google Photos upload.
I personally love it. Being able to search “Tom at the beach drinking a cocktail” and get all the relevant pictures is magic.
Android is developed by a consortium of developers called The Open Handset Alliance under an open source license. It is most certainly not a Google product, any more than Linux is a Canonical product. As in, they help develop it but it’s not their product.
That is really playing with words… Android (the OS people run on their phone) was originally developed by a company bought by Google, which then funded it, made the overwhelming number of contributions to it for 19 years, does the marketing, certification plus all the non-open source elements that make the experience what 99.99% of users get everyday when they use their phone.
You got me! Android came after maps in 2008. So that’s not a great argument for recent development. Is pixel meaningfully different than Nexus? That would put it in 2010, or 2016 if you insist pixel is a big innovation.
Chromebooks are also a 2010 project.
Google pay I don’t think is a success? Didn’t they like relaunch it recently and shit it up by tying it to phone numbers instead of your Google account? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/10/google-pays-disastrous-year-continues-promised-bank-account-feature-is-dead/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/google-pay-hopes-to-recover-from-brutal-2021-with-new-leadership/ . Also the original release is 2011. Quite some time ago. But technically newer than maps!
Drive is 2012. Dang, got me. But that’s still more than 10 years old, so my actual point seems to stand.
Chromecast is 2013, so maybe within this decade.
Auto is 2015 but I know nothing about it.
I guess I should’ve said “in the past 7 years” instead of exaggerating and saying since maps!
But all “successes” are gonna be years old. You don’t turn something like Chromebook into an overnight success. It takes years for an ecosystem to grow, users to find use cases, software revisions to polish the product, word of mouth, etc.
For comparison the Apple watch came out in 2015 and Airpods in 2016. What other successes has Apple had in the past 7 years? Maybe their AR thing will take off, but if it does it’s probably 5-10 years from becoming a mass market product.
Most of their innovation has been for developers it seems.
Edit for clarification: since Google maps
Ignoring everything after Google maps is ignorant as hell. I mean Google Photos is literally used by a massive percentage of iPhone users as well, because it’s so good.
You seem to be unfamiliar with hyperbole, or maybe just didn’t recognize it here.
Also they kind of enshittified Google photos by walking back the unlimited storage promise. Probably not the best project to point to for “Google doesn’t suck” arguments.
They didn’t walk it back. Pixel 1 still has unlimited storage.
You’re insufferable. Whatever fits your agenda.
They didn’t walk it back. Pixel 1 still has unlimited storage.
And for some time, other devices did as well. And then they changed it. Would some other term than “walking back” describe “they offered a good deal to customers, and then changed it to a less good deal” better for you?
Do you like work for Google or something? Probably not. The handful of people I’ve met who work there aren’t nearly this zealous about defending it.
They never, ever, ever, advertised other devices as having lifetime unlimited uploads for original quality. Show me where they said that.
They do still have unlimited, though. So not sure what you’re complaining about? Like I genuinely don’t. Both promises were kept.
Are you hanging your entire argument on the word “lifetime”?
From their announcement
Starting June 1, 2021, any new photos and videos you upload will count toward the free 15 GB of storage that comes with every Google Account or the additional storage you’ve purchased as a Google One member. Your Google Account storage is shared across Drive, Gmail and Photos. This change also allows us to keep pace with the growing demand for storage. And, as always, we uphold our commitment to not use information in Google Photos for advertising purposes. We know this is a big shift and may come as a surprise, so we wanted to let you know well in advance and give you resources to make this easier.
From this you can infer photos prior to June 21 2021 did not count against the storage. And now they do. Making the product worse for users.
Except they don’t. Try reading the screenshots I sent you?
Maybe stop fucking pouting like an entitled brat and open your damn eyes and read for a change? Holy shit.
Unpopular opinion: They should’ve just started charging big creators, kind of like Vimeo. Mofos be having youtube ads, sponsorships, built-in ads, courses, merch stores and patreon, and then they whine when youtube wants them to comply with advertiser’s demands.
Advertisement is brainwashing and should be against human rights.
not totally true, targeted spammed ads are brainwashing, suggesting a thing isn’t. it’s always the dose
Adblockers are eventually just going to become undetectable because of this. Adblockers are about to get so much better!
